You ruined my Pride March. You went along to an event that celebrates Melbourne’s Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, Trans* and Intersex communities, and you thought it was appropriate to yell, “Get off the fence, I don’t care how” more than once, and “undecided”. I decided to yell back at you “Fuck off”, but that doesn’t mitigate the fact that you went to a Pride event and decided to hurl abuse at a small group of bisexual people marching down the road.
Really, I’m so over this. This had previously been our normal, walking along at Pride and copping abuse from the crowd for existing, for daring take our non-monosexuality out in the open and be present and proud with all the other members of the LGBTIQ communities. We stood up against it, and it went away… for a while. Clearly you either missed the memo, or thought that since it hadn’t been spoken about for a while that it was completely acceptable to yell abuse at us.
What on earth were you thinking? Did you also hurl abuse at other groups like TGV or Seahorses? Did you yell at the politicians, the Police, or emergency services workers? If you were so full of vitriol that you had to yell at the one and only bisexual group at Pride, why did you bother to come along at all?
I don’t understand people like you who come along to an event to celebrate a group of minorities in society and yet reject an entire community in that broader community. I don’t understand what you thought yelling at us would achieve, other than making me (and others) sad. Do you honestly and genuinely believe that bisexual people haven’t made up their minds about their orientation? Do you think we’re all deluding ourselves? All of us? All 50% of the LGBTI community?
It’s beyond time that YOU stopped being so scared of us and so hateful towards us that you think that standing on the street during Pride March and yelling at us is completely acceptable. It’s time you started being generous of spirit, gracious, and willing to admit that sometimes you are wrong about things. It’s definitely time you started educating yourself about who is in your broader community, what their lives are like, and what effects biphobia actually has on them. Try a little compassion in your life.
29 thoughts on “To the woman who shouted biphobic abuse at Pride”
I’m sorry to hear this happened.
As in, sorry that you were subjected to it. And a bit bemused. What on earth did she expect to get out of shouting at you and the other bi people walking in the parade?
A rotten experience to have had, all the more so at a Pride event where the idea is to celebrate all sorts of not-hetero sexualities.
Deborah, you have an interesting question. What did she expect? Well, it’s kind of funny because what do straight people expect to achieve from abusing non-“straight” people? But that happens pretty often. What I’m trying to get at is how I feel about gay people being snobbish about bisexuality or just plain anti-bi as if it does not really exist.
In fact, biphobia is more predominant than homophobia in that it is often also expressed by a (large) portion of the LGBT community. That’s why although I am Bi I remain stuck hidden in the “straight” column. I’d really like to be open but I feel so persecuted by not just the straight community but also the gay community who don’t understand it!!! I wish so many people could stop thinking just because they don’t understand it then it is strange. Remind you of anything? Why are there terrible stereotypes that bisexuality means infidelity or some sort of hypersexuality???
I have no idea. When you look a psychology, hounding people about identifying with a subgroup, just means that they are more likely to continue to identify with that subgroup as they accept them and understand them.
That might not make as much sense I had hoped. Anyway, shouting at people doesn’t convert them to your cause in most cases.
I applauded you loudly as you walked by my spot. It was great to see so many different groups out marching and enjoying the day.
There’s nothing wrong with shouting back, it’d be great if the crowd would also respond when abuse is hurled at the marchers, I know I would have.
Thanks for the support Gregory – it’s hard sometimes in the face of adversity to keep walking tall and not be bowed down by it – as I’m sure you know.
I really liked your resource as that speaks volumes but bi as 50% of *community* rather than of LGBTI? But the problem is there is no memo, there was no education and being part of the community doesn’t mean we get to understand. But you were there.
Your post made look at your blogs on mental health
At best it looks like you were bullying someone.
I ask you to look up hypomania and its list of symptoms and then ask yourself why I, a person struggling to survive with bipolar type II, might think you don’t get it and therefore are part of the problem. It is simple: brain determines mood which determines behaviour. Suicide is the ultimate brash example of this brain-behaviour effect which I see you have helped promote prevention. But there are few people who are willing and understand how to prevent someone getting to the need for prevention of suicide. It is actually a circular effect where anti-social behaviour gets ridiculed and then other defects are noticed that lead to more negative feedback and isolation which undermines your mood and ability to control your behaviour. Examples of anti-social behaviour: not recognising somebody; forgetting their name; not being able to concentrate or listen to their short story because you are too fast; having to interrupt time and time again to chop up a conversation because you can’t take in a paragraph; a broken volume control of expression on every expression; disinhibition and inappropriate detail; frustration, irritability, anger, ranting and negativity – they are all friend killers. They vary with my illness.
I detect a common thread here and in the your other posts – no or little compassion.
The one on the Health Act is better but you still have no compassion to understand the implication of your simplistic suggestions would mean many more people including your friend would be in more agony and more would suicide. You don’t think beyond your friend’s experience on that occasion.
You seem to think every bisexual is out when the opposite is more true and you showed no compassion for their agony nor did you smooth the way for them. You just put up a barbwire fence and returned fire which was nice for your ‘wilful’ behaviour of anger.
NB: the Mental Health Act 1986 has been amended many times and includes 60 versions between July 1997 and Nov 2011. Did you quote current legislation or something that was old?
You should have known better because we are trying to amend the Marriage Act 1961 but of course no fault divorce is one of the changes since then as was Howard’s restriction to a man and a woman.
Wow that’s some essay Eric, almost worth of a blog post.
To answer your questions and accusations, now that I’ve looked you up and have some idea of who you are – a favour I’m not sure you reciprocated.
A) 50% of the LGBTI community – my wording wasn’t so precise because I was very upset when I wrote this
B) The first unrelated post (to this one) you have picked is me not engaging in an online debate between an alleged feminist ally and feminists who were calling him out on his poor behaviour. It was too long for twitter so ended up here.
C) Wow, little or no compassion – no please tell me more about how you’ve judged me wanting
D) I am one of the hosts of a monthly bisexual discussion group in Melbourne – I know out bisexuals and closeted bisexuals, I assume nothing, but again, thanks for your judgement. Otherwise, I really don’t understand how you reached this viewpoint.
E) Re my post on mental health, I believe I quoted the current legislation at the time that post was made – as someone who has a background (but not a qualification) in law I do know how austlii works.
Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to review my blog and post a very long comment. I’m sorry I’m not perfect (nor likely to be), but I’m not sorry that I get angry when faced with active biphobia – it hurts. It’s hard to engage when you’re marching down the street on a day which is all about Pride and acceptance.
Tell me how you’d do it all better.
Firstly I considered it immoral to look up who you are because it should be only about what you wrote and your blog not who you are. Your response to me was coloured negatively by what you looked up and you said as much. Furthermore, my openness to educate about mental health gives people an excuse to automatically dismiss anything I suggest and I have had numerous calls for my suicide (including from Graham Douglas-Meyer). I would rather be accused of sitting on a fence.
A) Understandable but it was in the context of bi “haven’t made up their minds” and 50% is not a common understanding of our community of LGBTI and nor was it reflected in the bi Pride contingent, ie it is the premise of your argument which you need to get right to elicit the best understanding. I know of just 1 actively bisexual man – contradiction.
B) Engaging? If it was just his poor behaviour why drag his mental health through the argument at all? Stigma loading? Disclosure of privacy? Tool for ridicule? Why do you argue with him publicly about the boundary of his diagnosis and wilful behaviour and without reference to his specific condition? Tell us why it wasn’t then and now isn’t mental health bullying for other people? Why does it remain visible? You like the stigma reduction guidelines of SANE but here you work against them.
C) No I sort to question what I saw in the blogs (“common thread”) and I would assume you the person has more to offer (not limited by Google). This is a typical straw man argument by changing my context. None of the posts looked at the big picture or really considered the alternative that you were pushing. You didn’t try and put yourself in their shoes. I don’t condemn your response on the March but this post is not so helpful. You attack the people only in each case not the prevailing circumstances that cultivated the situation.
D) To me it sounds like you assumed the heckler is a lesbian who is very, very well attached to the LGBTI community because she should have got the “memo” and you suggest “educating yourself about who is in your broader community” where broader community was defined as the LGBTI. At best you assume there is no information, understanding, stigma or discrimination gap other than laziness as the heckling was all mean behaviour with no defensible genesis. You made complete negative judgement on this person as if you were never ever in the closet and never ever struck out over it. Assuming nothing is best portrayed by canvassing the options. Perhaps you have mentioned your personal story too many times before but it might have shown the bridge over the gap for someone like this.
E) So why did make the very obvious mistake of thinking the Mental Health Act 1986 “is over 20 years ago – which indicates that the legislation has not been significantly revised since that date”? More importantly, why pretend you didn’t make this mistake?
Please don’t patronise my comment as an essay or long post because you know it would be dismissed (eg E) or ridiculed if it didn’t explain.
Yes totally agree it isn’t easy and Pride isn’t the best place to engage individually or to be angry really. Your retort doesn’t sound too anti-social. But blogs are another matter entirely. You need to assume this person and similar are going to come and read your blog and you want change for the better. The unrealistic memo idea alone alienates these people. Or do you just want to vent for the converted? I’m suggesting you take it up a notch, broadening your aims, reflect more understanding because you are the one with the bi experience and blog to do it. It isn’t my gap to bridge but gaps in understanding especially of stigma, mental health, treatments and associated behaviour are those that I have had too much experience of. Above all: critique what you write.
I’d like to think that if we actually met in real life we’d get on. I’d also like to think that you’d engage with me in good faith. I’m not seeing the latter here right now.
You seem to have a few misconceptions about this blog and me. I am the sole author of this blog, though sometimes there are guest posts (that is very rare). I do not blog full time, I blog sporadically when I have time and something to blog about. My usual audience is about 20 people per day. This post is by far the most read I have ever written.
You ask who I was writing for – the answer is me and people I know. I do not blog to gather an audience of people around the world – that happens by accident, not by design.
Why do I make mistakes – because I blog quickly and by myself. Thank you for pointing out an error I apparently made in a blog post almost 4 years ago. I didn’t even reread that post before replying to you, as I had other things on my mind, and to do. I still haven’t reread that post, because things. to . do.
I really would like to know how biphobic abuse can have a defensible genesis.
And in relation to looking you up, I did that to find out whether I should actually reply to you. You have _no_ idea what I found – I found links to a man living positively, who is well known and is highly qualified. I didn’t research you, I read the headings of the first few links and then decided that I would take time to respond to you, even though I felt that you had come into my space to dump many negative assertions on me.
As your comment was the first thing that I read this morning, I was shocked by it, and I perhaps didn’t respond as carefully as I could have, and for that I apologise. I have some understandings of your passions, and I wish you joy and success in enjoying them.
You say “there is no memo, there was no education”. Actually you’re wrong. There was a memo. You can read about it here:
Even if there wasn’t a specific memo sent to your phone, are you really saying that you and the rest of the QUILTBAG community have remained unaware of all the excellent news articles and discussions of the last 3 or so years regarding the crazy concept that bisexuality is real, and biphobia is a problem? You’ve missed all of these and so many more?
A few years ago this kind of abuse – even from fellow Pride marchers – was horribly common. Now there was only one person being horrible (although I think there were none last year). That’s something to be celebrated, and I’m sure Rebecca does celebrate it, but that doesn’t mean she can’t simultaneously be disappointed that there was still someone being an arsehole.
How do you think Rebecca should have reached out to this woman, given that we were marching in Pride March, not sitting down to tea? How do you educate someone who is being an arsehole when in 5 steps time you’re past them? Especially when you have your hands full taming a gorgeous banner in fairly determined winds.
You say that Rebecca “seem[s] to think every bisexual is out when the opposite is more true and you showed no compassion for their agony nor did you smooth the way for them. You just put up a barbwire fence and returned fire which was nice for your ‘wilful’ behaviour of anger.” I’m not quite sure how you determine that from Rebecca’s post. The sexuality of this woman is not relevant to the fact that she came to Pride March that exists to celebrate all parts of the QUILTBAG communities and yelled abuse at the 15 or so bisexuals marching down the street. Hurtful abuse. I would really like to know how you think Rebecca should have reacted. Should she have et go of her share of the banner and hugged the woman? Let go and sat down for a heart to heart with the woman? I can only assume you think that Rebecca should not have reacted at all, and probably not written this blog post either. Well, fuck that. When someone is horrible to you, I think it’s okay to show them that you’re angry with them. Saying “fuck you” is unlikely to have been as hurtful to that woman as the things she was saying were to the people around her (including the closeted bisexuals) and us on the march.
Saying “fuck you” might not be showing compassion in that moment, but neither is yelling abuse at a small float. Since you think Rebecca should have done better, how would you have shown your infinite compassion when you had 5 paces (maybe 15 seconds at most) to react? You have whole minutes to think of an answer. Rebecca wasn’t even expecting to need to, as we felt that we’d left all of that shit behind a couple of years ago.
I don’t see how this single incident is enough for your to judge Rebecca on being lacking in compassion, in general. Even if Rebecca didn’t do all of the things she does for the bisexual community and in fighting against discrimination for all QUILTBAG folk, she shouldn’t have to tolerate shit from the Pride March crowd, nor this disorganised shit from you.
Jacinta most of your ‘rebuttal’ is completely off track and unfounded because you didn’t read my post. I spent a lot of time being specific and you took away a Picasso painting of it. Rebecca’s response was mild until she wrote the blog.
Don’t defy the meaning of memo as it was used with some select news articles nor assume I have read them specifically. Don’t insult me with the idea that I must read those sources to be LGBTI. Have you read my memos on HIV, understanding mental health, stigma reduction of treatments and do you know how not to ridicule my HAND? PrEP? It isn’t about reading lists; it is about understanding. The memo idea is a gross insult because you just pass the buck of understanding when it is your problem to sort.
Do you want to change the vocal abuse by censorship or do you want to change people’s minds? How has your Pride group and its placards changed over the years to bridge this gap? And why brag of 50% of community, why brag of a memo when you had only 15 participants who read the memo to march? Why, with such appalling numbers, such a lack of support, did you think “that we’d left all of that shit behind a couple of years ago”? What was your message this year?
Thanks Eric. You’re done here. You’re welcome to write in your own spaces about what I or others could have done better, and should do next time. You’re no longer welcome to do it here.
I read your post. I read it several times. I even quoted it. It’s fine for you to allege that I didn’t understand your point, but it’s not reasonable to accuse me of not trying to understand it. Your original post doesn’t say that “Rebecca’s response was mild until she wrote the blog.” it says that you think that she’s a bully and lacks compassion. It says a lot more, too, but it says those things.
I’m pretty sure that Rebecca’s comment about “didn’t get the memo” was essentially rhetorical and used in this Urban Dictionary sense: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=didn%27t+get+the+memo
“To be or to remain uninformed, especially about something that is common knowledge to everyone else.
You’re still friendly to him after he stabbed you in the back? I guess you didn’t get the memo.”
Hence I just gave you a few links from the top search results of searching for “biphobia” as it’s a topic that has been pretty well covered in the news for several years now and many wonderful people have written about it in a wide range of publications. I didn’t assume you’d read those ones, but I would be surprised if you’d seen none at all. Linking to the Star Observer link was a little tongue in cheek, and I did it because even though their readership is almost nil in the scheme of things I thought is was worth mentioning that the Bisexual Alliance have tried to provide education on this to the QUILTBAG community in the past.
I haven’t read your memos, because just as bisexual issues aren’t a central issue to you, the things that you care about haven’t all been central issues to me. I have read somewhat widely on those issues, but given that I don’t recognize your name, I doubt I’ve read much of your stuff. But Rebecca was not actually referring to a specific memo.
I didn’t brag of 50% of the community, but I think that number is important when gay and lesbians marginalize bisexuals and insist we don’t exist. It’s not “just a phase” and all that. As to why the contingent was small? Probably because a great many of the people who might have joined us were having fun being in other parts of the march. Dressed up as science fiction characters in Spaced Out, or as furries, or in marching bands or whatever. When shit like this happens, that kind of decision makes even more sense.. Our participants didn’t need to read this imaginary memo, they just decided to turn up to support the Bisexual Alliance’s float.
As I previously said, I don’t think that the woman in the crowd’s sexuality is relevant. Or known. I don’t think Rebecca even saw her, and I’d be surprised if Rebecca knew anything about her sexuality (or even had any assumptions about it). None of us assumed that this woman has read the (imaginary) memo. We had just hoped that the world had moved a little on from people shouting negative things at us. You seem to think that’s wishful thinking. I prefer to believe that the people who attend to watch Pride are working to make the world a better place for all QUILTBAG members.
Maybe you have a point that we could have a specific message (other I guess than “we exist” and “proudly bisexual”), but as far as I am aware, Pride is not a huge part of our calendar. The Bisexual Alliance doesn’t collect money, and isn’t seeking to recruit. We’re just celebrating who we are. The monthly discussion groups is the primary focus of this group not marching once a year in St Kilda.
I am very sorry to hear that this happened to you and your group.
Well done for taking your stand. It doesn’t help ease the hurt that you’ve received. But, there are those of us in the community that do support you and do want to see you standing strong.
If it’s alright with you and your members we might add you to our list for prayer on Wednesday night here in Perth. You’re already in my prayers.
Keep well, keep safe and keep strong.
Thanks for your offer – we’re a diverse group with many different religious beliefs, but I’m sure everyone would appreciate your offer.
Just thought I should drop a few points of view:
– An oppressed minority commonly reacts to oppression with anger and this is legitimate anger.
– In order to resolve this we need to address the cause of the oppression.
– In your situation you understand that the comments were misdirected but you still go on to criticise the legitimate anger of gay people instead of the root of that anger.
– The root of the anger being also your oppressors.
Further in taking this conversation back to the oppressed instead you:
– Make their anger not legitimate.
– You belittle their oppression to over sensitivity to name calling.
I don’t quite understand your comment. Are you suggesting that the woman shouting biphobic abuse at the bisexual group was not oppressing bisexuals?
I have a confused.
I’m not sure if you’re responding to Rebecca or Eric. I’m going to assume you’re responding to Rebecca, but I hope you’ll forgive me if I misunderstood and you were really responding to Eric.
We agree that:
– An oppressed minority commonly reacts to oppression with anger and this is legitimate anger.
– In order to resolve this we need to address the cause of the oppression.
I am not sure that we agree that in Rebecca’s situation she understood that the comments were misdirected. The comments were absolutely directed at us marching in that section. The crowd member may or may not have been gay (or otherwise part of QUILTBAG). I have no reason to imagine that this random crowd member was legitimately angry about anything, although they were obnoxious. Even if they were legitimately angry, I have no reason to assume that their anger was necessarily as a result of the same oppression bisexuals (and other QUILTBAG members) face. They were being horrible to us for merely being proudly bisexual however.
I don’t agree that the root of their anger is necessarily (and certainly not self-evidently) the same as ours. In fact, I’d suggest that someone shouting biphobic slurs at a small float in Pride is probably more the oppressor than the oppressed (although it’s possible to be both).
I don’t agree that Rebecca’s response makes their anger not legitimate or belittles their oppression. I think in fact the reverse. I think that the crowd member was belittling the oppression faced by bisexuals, and I think that your response (if I’ve read it correctly) is delegitimising OUR anger. Name calling isn’t nice. Neither is telling us to just shut up and deal with it.
Just thought I would expand on this mornings hurried post which made several jumps of thinking from the original article that maybe I did not explain clearly enough.
Oppression and discrimination are not simply name calling or insulting people. Having an opinion and or an objection to something is everyones right of which then stops being ok when people begin to exercise power over other groups ability to act or think differently. Pride is not just because people call us names. Pride goes deeper in that we have been subjected to systematic and authoritative abuse and denial of rights and this still causes us problems.
I will stop here and emphasise that both the original article and the comments directly related to mine only use the terms oppression and discrimination to describe people who have opinions.
So making the first jump of thinking that oppression and discrimination actually both run deeper than a person democratically expressing their opinion and that we are now taking about abusive assertion of a privileged position lets make a few more points in relation to this topic:
– In my opinion gay people have no position of power, authority, privilege.
– In my opinion gay people – even in the context of Pride – do not have power, authority, privilege over bisexuals.
My conclusion: “biphobia” in the context of a homosexual who actively oppresses a bisexual does not exist.
I think the writer of this article has reacted in the worst possible way to criticise someone else who is obviously also a victim. When I try to objectively position both parties I recognise the person who is hurling the insult and the insult as a result of their experience and reaction to homophobia. The key here is recognising that this person is effected by homophobia and saying that homophobia is the issue which you are both effected by. Insisting that someone whose core issue is being a victim of homophobia has an issue that needs to be solved outside of the homophobia I find problematic.
EricMarc, glad you could clarify and I’m sorry to say you’re wrong. Bisexuals face active biphobia from the gay and lesbian communities and the straight communities. Let me give you some links:
Bisexual Invisibility: Impacts and Recommendations was published by the San Francisco Human Rights Commission in 2011. http://sf-hrc.org/sites/sf-hrc.org/files/migrated/FileCenter/Documents/HRC_Publications/Articles/Bisexual_Invisiblity_Impacts_and_Recommendations_March_2011.pdf
The Bisexuality Report was published by Open University (UK) and BiUK in 2012. http://www.bisexualindex.org.uk/index.php/TheBisexualityReport
I have blogged, and others have blogged about biphobia in the gay and lesbian communities and how that impacts on bisexuals – you can look that up yourself.
Some direct quotes (I seriously need to find a better theme with nested comments) from those two papers:
From page 5 of the San Fran report:
Page 8 & 9 of that report detail what biphobia is, and the report goes onto the effects that biphobia have on bisexual people’s health.
The Open University Report from the UK has on page 15:
Page 19 & 20 detail biphobia. And page 21 includes the following:
I completely acknowledge that those who identify as gay or lesbian (or both) have faced a struggle for acceptance, and that is hasn’t been easy road. I completely accept that the struggle for equality for gay and lesbian people is not over.
I would like you to acknowledge that biphobia is a real thing, and it exists within the gay and lesbian communities. I would also like you to acknowledge that biphobia, like homophobia and transphobia, carries real world consequences, and that fighting against homophobia, biphobia and transphobia is something we should be united in doing. And that means calling out bad behaviour in our communities when we see it.
Rebecca that isn’t my comment but Marc’s and it is wrong. Obviously biphobia does exist over and above its homophobia component. And is a common stigma of gay men.
You’re correct I typoed. My apologies
First I want to address an assumption that you’ve made that I didn’t make (and that I think Rebecca didn’t make either). You (and Eric, above) have assumed that this woman in the crowd identifies with some part of QUILTBAG. Maybe you assume that because she’s watching the march, maybe you assume that because you don’t know of straight bogans who’d shout biphobic stuff at strangers in a float. I don’t know why you assume that, and I don’t really care why, but you have.
Your posts would have made a lot more sense if you’d spelled out that assumption. As I said in response to your original post, Rebecca and I are not operating under that same assumption.
You write “I will stop here and emphasise that both the original article and the comments directly related to mine only use the terms oppression and discrimination to describe people who have opinions.” Since I responded to your comment, I presume that you are including that response in this. I think that if you re-read what I will write I did not “only use the terms oppression and discrimination to describe people who have opinions”. But regardless, I agree that the specific act of shouting abuse at someone is not necessarily oppressing or discriminating against them. Shouting abuse at someone can be hurtful but without any further action it’s not necessarily an act of denying them access to resources, or reducing their power. For example, to use a different axis of oppression, a person of colour calling me a white racial epithet (there aren’t many) isn’t oppressing me. On the other hand, me (as a white person) calling a person of colour a racial epithet is seriously problematic.
You go on to say that “In my opinion gay people have no position of power, authority, privilege.” but this is naive. Some gay people have power, authority and privilege. Whether by keeping their sexuality silent, or not, there absolutely exist powerful (but gay) people. Men and women. Consider that there are QUILTBAG politicians. Additionally, even where they are discriminated against in terms of society at large, some gay people have more power, authority and privilege over others than their fellows. Such as members of boards that service QUILTBAG members (eg those who run the “Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras”) and those who are participants in lobby groups that attempt to influence how governments spend money in their health budgets.
You then say: “In my opinion gay people – even in the context of Pride – do not have power, authority, privilege over bisexuals.” I wish this were not the case, but in my opinion you are wrong. The “Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras” name misses out the BTI part of LGBTI. IDAHO (International Day Against HOmophobia) missed out on Biphobia, Intersex phobia and Transphobia (IDAHOBIT). Talking about “gay” marriage leaves bisexuals out of the conversation. “Gay and Lesbian” groups often don’t mention bisexuality and even when they do, sometimes they treat biphobia as a subset of homophobia. Prominent gay men (like Dan Savage) have repeatedly claimed that bisexuality doesn’t exist and that bisexuals are just lying. Being discriminated against by both straight and queer people sucks! (IDAHO has a pretty good summary of this here: http://dayagainsthomophobia.org/idaho/position-on-biphobia-and-lgbt-phobia/ )
So I don’t agree with your conclusion. There are homosexuals who actively oppress bisexuals, probably through ignorance, but that’s what causes much oppression. I would like to live in your world, but I don’t.
You say “I think the writer of this article has reacted in the worst possible way to criticise someone else who is obviously also a victim.” I don’t agree that the woman in the crowd is at all “obviously” a victim. She might be, she might not be. She could just be a biphobic bigot. For all I know she hurled abuse at all of the floats and I only heard about this one. Or maybe she just saved her vitriol for us. Maybe she’s queer, or maybe she’s been hurt by someone who was. We don’t know. I’m pretty sure that you don’t know either, and it’s a reach therefore for you to base your response around this assumption. Of course you might know, maybe you know her personally, but if that’s the case you should probably say so.
Given you think that Rebecca’s reaction is poor form, how would you have approached this? How would you have recognised that this person was affected by homophobia, and how would you have reacted better? (Keeping in mind that this is a tiny blog that is primarily written by Rebecca for her friends).
Oh come on, I was outed as bisexual at age 7 and hearing I “go both ways” made no sense until I was like 12 but it exists from both you and straight people because you are both live in different worlds where you guys have petty fights over things. Same with straight people. I have experienced homophobia twice myself. Biphobia has gotten worse but I don’t really care nor do I think that someone who is biphobic but the thing is, nobody has any clue how one feels on either end and gay people want to tell us how to express our sexuality. We are everywhere and I will be with a man no faster than a woman in public and don’t care what nastiness I hear. If you were hurt by one once when you were in 13 or some 20 something with a drug problem that doesn’t want to smarten up. It is very passive and dismissive but it is privilege you and straight people both have it and see nothing wrong with it. I would lastly say, I think that is a good norm because why cry about no community when you could be setting the norm of what you want. I think separatist behavior that is cultural or enlightenment or safety and community among it is great. It isn’t based on them try and understand it
There is evidence that we were a dominant cultural norm in Rome, Greece, which you guys tried to steal from us, Persia, India and Japan. The ancient times where when we were the top oppressors in the world. It was with the women too. I guess considering all the wars and killing they lived for then, it worked that way when one is gone for periods of time for war. I don’t understand these gene seeking, folks looking for something to defend an argument that comes from the bible and I hope that we don’t turn into the Special Snowflake tumblr edition of the bi tumblr. The hiding bi or the rainbow flagger are at wrist without help understanding how she is thought of. We are also all over the straight community too and there are places are there. You politically lead a group that two groups in that combined “community” want to leave because we are tired over issues revolving evil straight men and homophobia. One dude this lying gay guy pointed to me and accused of homophobia and I said nope, I blew him about 15 minutes ago. I am not insecure nor do I care about any LGBT function. I think the idea of being proud of being a part time homo sounds like being proud I have green eyes or something. I don’t care what they initially say and love me later on.
Which one of us pretends to have the other’s orientation when they “come out”?? Who helped promote you guys when the 70’s disco scene was in love with bisexuality as a liberating freeing concept that everyone should follow?? Oh well, this could backfire. If becoming nastier is the gay and lesbian answer to their freedom, I don’t care about their “trigger” crap or if I bother them about it. You replied to every one of those posts like you were talking down to the little people or that we are chained to your norms. You really know you aren’t ever taken seriously to claim what we think or want when really dude, you parrot every other rotten queen I met. I was in love with a man for awhile until head trauma from a car crash and he was like me and my ex girlfriend was pregnant but I mean in love.
well, if I am 34 and have not settled any confusion I ever had sexually, I would be fine. My experience made me know I was something different than them. We are privileged over one another in alternate but numerous ways. We are privileged over you all and straight people too because we are both and we’re privileged and oppressed in different ways, even why straight men. The modern ones shouldn’t suffer for 70 or 250 years ago and honestly, as another non-straight group like you, I can say if you are creeping out straight men you are doing a disservice to yourself. But honestly just the implication that your orientation and problems are everyone’s, you lost me. I never tried to be more than an ally, I didn’t sleep with gay people but hell. I don’t see where you monosexuals are all up on your turf. I notice things different.
Try and understand my viewpoint is from early outing over crushes that were boys and girls other times when it was schoolyard crush age. I didn’t care at all but I never saw myself in either gay or straight shoes because at 7 or 8 the idea that you are an outsider and hear thinks like go both ways when you cant see how that would affect my life in ways that sucks. I also hate those guilt trips you PC social justice types are just milking the shit out of the homophobia thing. I can say it limit’s choices and solutions. It keeps you in the drama triangle because history is done and you aren’t the victim and we can’t rescue you from your insecurity. Same with a lot of straight people too. I don’t need to be asked about porn crap I know nothing about because you think I’d nail anyone.
We are different people as an identity and we can’t just go back and forth and sign up for one side then going back but the root of the problem is both of you because I don’t understand. We are snickered at like we’re a joke or kinky or closeted gay people and we are supposed to tolerate that but the moment we state facts about how you look down on certain things and it sets you back. And straight people do it too you as a whole being attracted to one gender and not just that but your have lined off yards that you don’t want anyone in there but really. You know that we experience different things but it doesn’t make our experience less than yours or nonexistent. When thought of for my differences different at 7 for no reason, I beg to differ that the norm is very puritanic. Plus, we are turning into weaklings bi people I am sorry but look at the big picture and study periods of history with no theme or motive and you’ll see the societies. We were the brutal war machine before straighty jumped in with a vengeance and bible and went to town. Invisibility sucks but also has plusses, we can conceal our historic atrocities as a group.
Gay people are clever and I wish them the best in their drama and will be there if it involves me directly or as a person but you can’t have any clue to know how my mind works nor do you have any credibility about bisexuality at all from any experience or personal self worth so I really don’t care about it. Go whine about Chick Fil-A for 8 months because that was some big deal… a fried chicken fast food place not run by a rich old redneck… And bisexuals, don’t turn into special snowflakes… we have a different place than them so we’ll understand much.
People get to 2015 thinking it’s okay to make excuses for bigotry. Pride was co-founded by a bisexual woman. If anybody in the queer community attending one of these events is uncomfortable with bi anything they should probably study the history of the event they are marching in. YOU CANNOT BE AT PRIDE AND BE BIPHOBIC. IT IS CRAPPING ALL OVER THE ENTIRE FOUNDING AND POINT OF IT AND MAKING A MOCKERY OF IT. Learn your own damn history queer community. Biphobia is real and so is historical ignorance and erasure.
“Maybe it was a straight person. Maybe you should accept this bigotry because gays are oppressed by straights too.” lol wut is this doublespeak bigot excusing bag of verbal poop even?
Bi guy to bi people, there are bisexuals all over, it doesn’t matter what they attempt to make us out to be the freaks. This problem is because you date them (and straight people to begin with) and maybe 5-10% and I am being generous actually succeed.
Imagine a relationship with one, where they fear you cheating with all your friends. The jealousy, paranoia and drama isn’t worth that mess. I have seen too many too end up screwed over it. I was outed as a kid so I never saw myself as anything but bisexual. I personally don’t care what they think. Their subgroups have some nasty statistics that surpass ours. Monosexuals seem to not even see their behavior but with the bi resources we do have, we could mass leave that group and get our chunk of the government money those LGBT places get.
The last one I went to in support of a friend some straight girl who has some place in their community as an ally was asking people what they were and bossing everyone around. When she asked me what I was I said bisexual and asked her and when she said straight, I thought it was the twilight zone and said, she will get ignored if she bosses me around because 1/4 of the funding to these LGBT places are for bisexuals and bisexuality but they are slick and just hyphenate us to their meetings and have a small one for the trans people to keep the gravy train flowing. I bet Putin passed that law in Russia after those pride parades. Straight males and bisexual people have had my back the most out of any groups.
Since I am also as straight as I am gay, I can say straight men are not the big bad wolf anymore. In 15 years they have changed for the better on your behalf. But I still think bisexuals should stop ignoring other bisexual people because the need to chase other orientations around sets you up for that. LGBT technically only refers to laws and the shared status is the overlap in few areas. Gay and Lesbian folks dominate the dialogue and issues and get the most benefits out of it. We don’t want to be seen as either of your worlds. Just part of the shared world altogether. But stay in your bubble and enjoy the small minded view.
Overlapping on some issues is not the same thing as homophobia which to both less and more in some cases, we are seen as worse than you and blamed for AIDS although those men were in the process of coming out as gay and had front families. It was a closet case trend back then and has nothing to do with our sluts who we do have to validate although they are a small minority. However, gay people go into denial over one of their own or the negative stereotypes that are true in their group and you all embrace the very stereotypes you hate and straight people telling you reality isn’t always homophobia. Homophobia isn’t a term you slap on people for disagreeing. I will also own that homophobic bisexuals in small numbers exist too. We don’t act innocent to the issues in our community unlike you all with your angel act.
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